Answering "answering-islam.org"
Part 4
Objections
Critic:-
"My problems with Islam are not so much "from the inside" where it is a largely self-consistent and beautiful idea, but when looking at Islam "from the outside" and observing a number of clashes with reality as we know it. That is the reason I wanted to give this series the title "Islam and (the problem of) Reality". In the end I came to the conclusion that this title is too aggressive and I rather want to formulate my thoughts in the format of questions addressed to Muslims, since I believe these are essential questions to answer when thinking about entrusting your eternal destiny to this or any religion."
Jesus says: "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? John 3:12
In other words: If you do not trust/believe me when I speak of the things that can be "tested" and checked out whether they are true based on evidence because they are "earthly" i.e. accessible, how can you even ask for an explanation about the things which are by their very nature not accessible and you cannot confirm them but have to take them by "blind faith"? Jesus says, there is no point in telling you anything about heavenly realities, since you didn't even believe the visible signs and miracles I performed before your very eyes.
Comment:-
This has nothing to do with miracles. Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus who could not understand Jesus when he said: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee: Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it lists and you hear the sound thereof but cannot tell whence it comes and where it goes to: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." John 3:5-8
It seems that the critic has not understood this either.
Critic:-
Now, in a slight reversal of the introductory quote, I think that Jesus acknowledges here the principle that one way to test the truth of any religious claim, is to see if it holds true for the "earthly reality". What does this religion teach about the things we can test by knowledge from research in the scientific disciplines, verification through historical and archeological research, or just logical thinking and testing the whole system for logical consistency.
And it is exactly in these areas that I have a number of questions in regard to Islam. I have the impression that Islam does not pass this "reality check". How then, can I believe what it says about the nature of the one true God, about life after death, about Judgment Day etc., all those topics I cannot verify by any means and which I can only accept as given to me?
Answer:-
The impression this Critic has is based on a view from a platform, which has itself failed the "reality check". In fact, the Critic sets up his own Criteria for belief rather than those provided by God or religion. The Jews rejected Christianity by doing the same. In fact, everyone can reject Christianity or any other religion by setting up suitable tests designed to do this. It could be argued that the Critic has a superficial view of religion and he applies this to Islam. But it also prevents him from understanding his own religion.
Critic:-
All truth is God's truth. And that means for me, that the truth will never have to fear any facts and evidence. And if some facts are clearly contrary to what I believed to be the truth, then I might just be mistaken in my "believed truth" and have to adjust my faith to the evidential truth. That does not mean I have to immediately accept everything that comes in the disguise of "science". I have to question these things just as much as I am called to question and test any religious claims. But in the end, if my "faith" contradicts the facts as they are after all critical evaluation, then maybe something is wrong with my faith and I have to seriously think about adjustments.
In this spirit, I do want to present some questions here, which I think are very important. This will be very critical towards Islam by the very nature of anything that deserves the name "testing of claims" and some of you will most probably not like it. I know that.
Answer:-
The problem lies in this:- What does the Critic regard as facts? What does he mean by truth - his own opinion? Are they not interpretations of data given to the senses? Is this interpretation not done within certain contexts, experiences and conceptual systems? Is it not the case that preconceptions, prejudices, fantasies, illusions and rationalizations interfere with perception? Do not all hypotheses and theories, including scientific ones, change because of new data or data not previously considered important and changes in concepts and understanding? Are not the senses and reason often defective providing us with illusions, delusions and hallucinations? Why does the Critic think he has understood things correctly?
Critic:-
But these are honest questions. For some of them I just don't know the answer or if Islam has an answer. Some of them I have asked before and did not get any real answer and by now, after nearly 3 years of discussion with Muslims I doubt that Islam is able to give a satisfactory answer. Some others I have never asked before and maybe you will indeed have good answers to them. I hope we can discuss these things in a spirit of respect for each other and concentrate on the questions instead of attacking the integrity of the persons involved in the discussion.
Answer:-
There are certainly problems in understanding religious materials because religion deals with matters which are outside ordinary human experience and owing to human limitations in intelligence, perception, prejudices, fantasies, addictions, interests etc. This is true as much of Christianity and other religions as of Islam. Why does the Critic think that the supposed defects are in Islam rather than in himself?
Critic:-
The Qur'an repeatedly states the challenge (2:111, 27:64, 28:75): "Bring your proof if you are truthful." I hope that Muslims will gladly abide by this standard which the Qur'an itself sets, and will not take offense when non-Muslims ask for the evidence in regard to the claims of Islam "to possess the absolute truth", just as you take the freedom to question any other world view for its foundations and validity.
Answer:-
Does the Critic think that the Quran issues a challenge, which it cannot itself meet? Would there be any point in this.
Critic:-
But, let it be said, even if you could disprove the claims of Christianity, that does not say anything in itself about the truth of Islam. If Christianity is right, then Islam is wrong. But if Christianity is wrong, you are still in debt to prove that Islam is not also wrong.
Answer:-
In supposing that if one is true the other must be wrong, the Critic has made an assumption before he starts. He has ignored the possibility that he has misunderstood either or both. It all depends on what you mean by Christianity - the teachings of Jesus or those of the different Churches or the organization or behaviour of people who call themselves Christian. If you mean some of the doctrines of the Church then it is the Islamic position that the doctrines of the Church are at variance with the teachings of Jesus and that there is no contradiction but full accord between Islam and the teachings of Jesus. So we reject the proposition "If Christianity is right, then Islam is wrong."
Critic:-
"Why do they not study the Quran carefully? If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it numerous contradictions." Sura 4:82
Maybe there are not many "internal" contradictions, but I do have the impression, that there are a number of weighty contradictions between Islamic claims and historical reality.
Answer:-
The "historical realities" are really interpretations of events known by people and selected and interpreted according to a desire, motive or purpose. The point is to study the Quran carefully and according to the instructions it gives. One of the implications of the verse is that if you see contradictions between the Quran and something, then you have misunderstood either the Quran or that other thing.
Critic:-
Muhammad comes along 600 years after the event of the Crucifixion and just declares this event to be a "non-event". The crucifixion is arguably the best documented fact of history in the time of antiquity. There are to my knowledge no serious scholars of history who doubt this. The resistance is against the Resurrection but the Crucifixion is basically uncontested. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:14 "And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
Answer:-
The Critic is making several errors in reasoning.
(1) Firstly, the Quran does not contain the opinion of Muhammad, but are revelations of God. What reason could Muhammad have for affirming the mission of Jesus and yet denying his crucifixion?
(2) The Critic believes in logic but has put himself in an invalid circular argument. He assumes that the Quran is not a revelation and on this premise he wants to prove that the Quran is not a revelation and is also false.
(3) The statement by Paul does not prove a historical fact either of crucifixion of Jesus or his resurrection. Nor is it proof that Christianity should be based on the crucifixion unless you define Christianity as following Paul. Jesus did not teach this.
(4) There is no historical evidence for the crucifixion of Jesus or his death on the Cross. All the disciples had run away. Luke 24:35-51 makes it clear that Jesus was alive in the flesh though the Apostles thought he was a ghost and that Jesus was raised only later (verse 51). Many are mistaken for dead even today.
(5) The Critic has mistaken what the Quran says. It tells us that the Jews did not kill Jesus, but that Jesus was taken up to heaven. Did not Jesus himself say: "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:17-18
Does the Critic not believe Jesus?
(6) The Quran affirms that Jesus was an example to the Children of Israel and a sign of the Day of Resurrection and Judgement (43:59-64).
(7) The reason for denying the crucifixion by Jews is that Christians have made it into a superstition by basing the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus, of Trinity and vicarious atonement on it, thereby nullifying the purpose of Jesus' mission. What he taught was:-
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:21-23
"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him." John 4:23
"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:17
"And this is Eternal Life that they might know THEE, THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom Thou has sent." John 17:3
"While I was with them in the world I kept them in THY NAME..." John 17:12
"I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just because I SEEK NOT MINE OWN WILL, but the WILL OF THE FATHER which has sent me." John 6:30
"..I do nothing of myself; but as the Father has taught me, I speak these things." John 8:28
Also see John 6:38, 57, 7:16, 8:28, 10:37-38, 12:49
This is exactly what the Quran confirms.
Islam was required to rectify the inventions of people and also to be a stage higher than Christianity as the teachings of Jesus were to be higher than those of Moses. (This does not mean that the prophets were superior or inferior to each other, but that their missions were connected with the stages reached and to bring about the next stage.
Critic:-
The early Christians not only believed the Crucifixion and Resurrection and testified to it as eye-witnesses but made these events the very center of their message. And the problem for Islam is not only to deny the first of these points but that in denying the first it makes nonsense of the others as well. Taking away the crucifixion and resurrection there is then no explanation for the reality of the faith of the early Church.
Answer:-
Resurrection is a spiritual event, not a physical one. The resurrection could also have been understood symbolically. When Jesus was taken away by the Romans apparently to be killed, all his disciples ran away and there was despair among his followers - the faith reached a low point. When Jesus reappeared among them, the faith revived - Christianity was resurrected. It is not very difficult to understand. The Quran does not deny that Jesus is a sign of Resurrection.
Critic:-
In Biblical understanding there cannot be any basis for faith, if God never really intervened in history. A set of "ideas" or "rules" (commandments) could be invented by anybody. How do we know they are from God? It is always God who takes the initiative, who proves himself to be real, and then invites us to respond. This is the pattern throughout scripture. Biblical faith is "historical faith". For example, God ties His Ten Commandments to a historic event:
"And God spoke all these words: I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt out of the land of slavery You shall have no other gods before me...." Exodus 20:1-2
Answer:-
The Islamic position is that God manifests throughout history and in the universe and in man himself. This is not confined to any particular event. People followed Moses (saw) and Jesus (saw) because they believed them when they said they brought the word of God. There was something about them and the teachings they brought, which people recognized as extra-ordinary. "And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes." Matthew 7:28-29. Those who followed Muhammad (saw, did so for exactly the same reason. The historical facts arose from this fact and not the other way round. The rapid spread of Islam, starting with one man and one book, the Quran, is a miracle and a historical fact.
Critic:-
In this same pattern it is the historical (f)act of the death of Jesus on the cross, being an atoning death for sin because of who it was on this cross, which is the basis for calling us to worship Jesus as the one who took away our sins, and liberated us from the bondage of sin.
Answer:-
The Critic is confusing facts with the interpretations of them. It is not at all necessary to believe that the death of Jesus causes salvation. It is only necessary to obey the Word of God which the Prophets and Messengers bring. And this is exactly what Jesus taught. See Matthew 7:21-23 quoted above and John 6:30,38,57, 7:16, 8:28, 10:37-38, 12:49, John 4:21,23, Mark 12:29-30)
Critic:-
What is Islam basing its hope on? Do Muslims just believe because God (?) says so without first proving Himself trustworthy? Or even giving evidence for his very existence for that matter? How do you know it was God in the first place who said these things you believe in?
Answer:-
The question can be reversed:- Do Christians simply believe the New Testament or more correctly, the words of Paul? Where do you get the evidence that God spoke to Moses or Jesus and Jesus died for your sins?
Islam is the religion of Truth. It is based on the recognition of Truth and not on irrelevancies.
Critic:-
One of the tests for the truth of the Bible is that we can prove that most of the Biblical events can be verified from secular history and archeology. Nearly every year there are new discoveries that confirm again and again the truth of the Biblical reports. Sure, there are still a few unverified events, but to my knowledge none which has conclusively shown that the event reported in the Bible is contrary to our secular archeological and historical knowledge.
Answer:-
This is very naive. Does the Critic think that if someone writes down history in a book and adds some inventions of his own, this will make the inventions true because the history is true? There are numerous historical records and some of these contain all kinds of assertions. Are the ancient Egyptian, Greek and Norse legends and their interpretations true?
Critic:-
The Quran on the contrary seemingly expects to be believed without evidence that it is God who has given it.
Answer:-
Religion depends on understanding the teaching, on discernment of its truth and on faith rather than external evidence. As Jesus said: "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." John 8:47.
However, the following are evidence that Islam comes from God:-
(1) The Prophet was known to be truthful and sincere, and that long before his mission began. That is why he was believed by these who followed him.
(2) He devoted his life to prayer and service to God without acquiring worldly wealth.
(3) The teachings he brought harmonize with the nature and deep experiences of the people.
(4) The teaching in the Quran conform to the processes and nature of the Cosmos.
(5) The teachings of the Quran have expanded consciousness, conscience and will and transformed people.
(6) Islam spread rapidly, transformed the world. It toppled old empires and civilizations and created new ones and laid the foundations of modern world.
(7) The teachings are similar to the teachings of other religions, including those of Jesus. There are teaching stories in the Quran similar to those in the Old Testament. If these are true in the Old and New Testaments then they are true in the Quran.
(8) There are certain Prophecies in the Quran that have been fulfilled.
(9) The coming of Muhammad (saw) is also the fulfillment of prophecies in the Old and New Testaments (Deuteronomy 18:18 and John 16:11-15. Christians deny this but this is not different from the denial by Jews of the assertion that the Old Testament predicts the coming of Jesus. The point is that what some people accept as evidence is not accepted by others. Muslims usually require no other evidence than the Quran itself that it is a revelation of God.
The fact remains that Christianity is based on faith as is Islam.
But from the Islamic point of view true faith comes from God and is the result of purification of the spirit by an appropriate discipline. In Christianity, faith appears to mean blind belief or sentimental attachment to a doctrine.
Critic:-
When the Apostle Paul is called by Jesus himself, it is important that Paul is a witness of the living risen Christ, who met him (in a vision) on the Damascus road and commissioned him to be a messenger. But still, this is "not enough". Paul also meets with the leaders of the Apostles and gets their approval for his mission and message which he is going to take to the gentiles, so that all can be sure, it is the one and true Gospel that is preached by all Apostles equally.
Answer:-
The Critic is taking the word of Paul that he had such a vision, but will not do so for Muhammad. He has also ignored the fact that there were differences of opinion between Paul and other Apostles, particularly Peter, who was an example of the faith on which true Christianity would be built (Matthew 16:18). There is certainly a difference between what Jesus taught and what Paul, who had never met Jesus, taught. We hardly hear anything from the other 11 apostles. But even Paul says:
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" 1 Tim 2:5. "There is actually to us one God the Father,...and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ" 1 Cor 8:6. "One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" Eph 4:6
Critic:-
The early Church took great pains to make sure their faith was based on solid historical truth. They exposed heresy as soon as it came up from some people. All this is very clear from the records we have. The Apostle Peter says in 2 Peter 1:12 "So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have."
Answer:-
But Paul tells us that corruption had already set-in in his day:- "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel." Galatians 1:6
"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Acts 20:29-30
"Professing themselves wise they became fools and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man.." Romans 1:23
Christians had already departed from the teachings of Jesus.
Critic:-
The Apostle John writes in 1 John 1:1-3 "That which was from the beginning, which WE have HEARD, which WE have SEEN with our eyes, which WE have LOOKED AT and our hands have TOUCHED -- this WE proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; WE have SEEN it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has APPEARED to US. We proclaim to you what WE have SEEN and HEARD, ...
Answer:-
Islam does not deny that Jesus was a true Messenger of God. It denies Christian misinterpretations of Jesus' message. But it also caters for a new age, replacing some things with others. This does not mean that the things replaced were untrue, bad or useless, but only that they are inappropriate for another time, place, people, condition or stage in history.
Critic:-
God has so far always given evidence enough to show the authentication of his messages. This is the hallmark of all Biblical revelation. Based on these observations, entrusting myself to Islam would be blind faith for me. It would be faith against evidence. I cannot do that. From the earlier prophets I see that God has never expected blind faith in his message. Especially since we are warned over and over again against false prophets and teachers. Why would God change his methods without warning or announcements? God is unchanging.
Answer:-
Evidence is not independent of the capacity of the person to perceive it. If it is as objective as the Critic supposes then why is it that most people are not Christians and an increasing number are abandoning it for other faiths. How is it that despite the warning against false Prophets and teachers Christians follow doctrines that Jesus never taught and were invented centuries later? But when it comes to someone whose coming Jesus forecast they do not believe because they have accepted the false doctrines?
Critic:-
The Quran says: "O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of Allah: As said Jesus the son of Mary, to the Disciples: Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah? Said the disciples: We are Allah's helpers! Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed." Sura 61:14
Looking at this very clear verse, I wonder why Muslims seem to completely disregard it and declare that true Christianity and the true message of Jesus became corrupted and Christianity is wrong.
Answer:-
Does the Critic think that this verse of the Quran is true? Does it support Jesus? Why then does he think that the Quran is untrue in other respects? Why does he expect Muslims to believe this verse and not others about the changes and misinterpretations Christians have made to the doctrines of Jesus?
"And because they broke their covenant, We cursed them, and placed hardness in their hearts. They perverted the words from their contexts, and forgot a portion of what they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to find treachery from all, save a few of them; but pardon them and bear with them (tolerate or ignore their perversity); verily, Allah loves the kind. And of those who say: Verily we are Christians, We have (also) taken a covenant; but they have forgotten a goodly portion of the message; wherefore have We excited amongst them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of what they have done. O ye people of the Book! Now has Our Messenger come to you to expound unto you much of what ye used to hide in the Book, and forgiving (or abolishing) much. Now has come unto you light from Allah, and a perspicuous Book. 5:13-15
Critic:-
Yes, Church history agrees there was much battle over the right doctrine and correct faith between the different interpretations taken by some. And especially in the early fourth century the theological battle between those whose spokesman was Athanasios and the large following that Arius had at this time. This debate went on for a number of years. But in the end it was a clear victory of orthodox Trinitarian Christianity. And this battle was completely decided in the fourth century, nearly 250 years before the Qur'an was given to Muhammad.
This seems to leave us with the alternative that either Orthodox Trinitarian Christianity is right [because they are the ones who prevailed], or the author of the Qur'an was not well informed about Church history. But it is worse than that. Most Muslims believe that Jesus preached in essence the "same Islam" as Muhammad did. But we have NO record at all of any group believing similarly to what we find in Islam. We have record of many different groups which claimed to be Christians.
Answer:-
So the Critic realizes that there were controversies about doctrines. Good. But what makes him think that the doctrine that won out was the correct one? It is not difficult to see that there is no Trinity in the New Testament. We also know that things tend to degenerate the further one gets from the original and they must be restored. If the original comes from God then the restoration must also come from God. Why else was Jesus sent when Hebrewism became corrupted. Thus there is a strong likelihood that God sent another Messenger when Christianity was corrupted. As the author of the Quran is God, He knows what message was given to Jesus.
Critic:-
Furthermore, Jesus said basically the same as the Qur'an 61:14:"I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18 This means: Even though the powers of death and destruction will try to overpower the church, Jesus prophecies that they will not succeed, and the true church [HIS church] will not be overpowered but stand secure in these attacks. NOT: It will be corrupted and dissolve and then God will send a new prophet to reestablish a community of true believers.
Answer:-
This is a naive understanding specially when The Old Testament, particularly in Daniel as well as Jesus in Matthew 24 and the book of Revelations predict the corruption of religion and its renewal. An intelligent interpretation of the above sayings of Jesus imply that despite corruption there will always be some who will withstand these forces and that God will restore Truth. How does the Critic reconcile his theory with the up and down fortunes of the Israelites and Jews? Did not Islam expand and prevail?
Critic:-
And though Islam has become strong to a certain extent, it is after 1400 years still far from prevailing over Christianity. Also, around 900 or even 1400 AD, with the large Muslim Empire still intact and before the mission movement in Christianity from the 18th century onwards there might well have been more Muslims on this earth than Christians. What does that then tell us about long term growth rates? Why do you think the *current growth rate* is so much more meaningful than this long term growth rate?
To summarize, the problem with respect to 61:14 is: Was God uninformed about the kind of Christianity that had prevailed? Or was Muhammad uninformed about the Christianity that had prevailed? Either way, this is a "difficult" verse with quite some consequences. Or do you see a way that is able to view this verse both in line with historical reality and with divine omniscience?
Answer:-
The Islamic position, as the Critic well knows, is that God is the author of the Quran, not Muhammad and that God knows every thing. Muslims find no difficulty in understanding this. Christianity did prevail. But it was also corrupted, especially when the organized Church became powerful. Christians recognized this also. Why else was it necessary to undertake the Reformation? It is quality rather than numbers that count. The world was full of non-believers when God spoke and guided the Israelites who were few in number. But they also sinned and were scattered. It was predicted that in the Last days Satan would be loose and would deceive most people. Whereas people have abandoned Christianity and Christian Churches are emptying and closing down, when convenient, Christians count all or most of those living in the West as Christians. This is obviously quite false. Though people have fallen away from Islam too, it is much more probable that the number of believing and practicing Muslims is much greater than the number of believing and practicing Christians.
(Continued in next article)
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