Re: "Views of Islam"
Critic:-
Why are you posting these articles on these Internet sites, trying to imposing your views on us. Stop brain washing us.
Answer:-
You are free to read or not to read, accept or reject.
Should all books be banned unless the authors present you with ideas acceptable to you?
Critic:-
Are you not arguing for such a position yourself in your articles, at least as an acceptable possibility?
Answer:-
No. Personal preferences cannot be imposed on others. Nor is there a ban on what is factual and true, but only on what is harmful.
All those who accept Islam accept its values. Whereas they are required not to impose their values on others, others cannot be allowed to impose theirs on them. So if others leave us alone we will leave them alone.
Critic:-
How about letting all people live as they wish?
Comment:-
Are you objecting to the dissemination of information in general or just about Islam?
How about letting people live in ignorance and getting rid of all books which present facts or values or techniques. How about letting people poison each other, kill and mutilate. People affect each in all kinds of ways.
Critic:-
That's been done before, and is precisely what I'm arguing against. The Nazis had standards for what books, music, and visual arts they would tolerate; so did Stalin. As a result, they had huge bonfires of books they didn't approve of, and generally executed their authors. How about NOT mutilating artists, nor their art?
Comment:-
There is a difference between books presenting facts, values and techniques and those which promote depravity.
There is a difference also between a hysterical book burning on political grounds and a sober legal assessment.
There are differences in different cultures between what is regarded as Art.
We do not regard Art or Artists as sacrosanct or above the Law. We are required to judge everything according to whether it is spiritually beneficial or harmful.
I am presenting an Islamic point of view.
No amount of arguments based on extraneous values can change this point of view.
When was mutilating artists recommended?
Critic:-
The most obvious example was when numerous mullahs issued fatwas on Salman Rushdie's life.
Comment:-
I am not aware that mutilation of the artist was recommended?
When was this carried out?
Did I endorse it in my articles?
Was it his art which was objected to or was it the fact that he was insulting Muslims?
Is this not just another sign of mindless hysterical exaggeration and fantasy?
Critic:-
There is no objective definition of "depravity" in art. In the U.S., there has recently been discussion of a bill in Congress that would make literature about subjects such as suicide, gangs, and fighting off-limits to children. Senator McCain pointed out that Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet" would immediately fall under this ban.
Comment:-
I know what the word "depravity" means, It refers behaviour which is contradictory or harmful to healthy human functioning. I am also quite aware of the rationalizations used by people to protect it.
I do not much care what decisions are reached in USA or elsewhere based on criteria irrelevant to Islam or no criteria.
Critic:-
Do you consider the Taliban in Afghanistan hysterical or sober? I know you'll cop out and refuse to answer this.
Comment:-
If you know that I will cop out then why ask?
I see that you wish me to join your hysterical witch hunt - and there is the threat that if I do not you will join the others in a witch hunt against me.
But I do not succumb to such tactics easily.
However, if the reports of what the Taliban are doing are right - and I think that these may have truth in them though I have no first hand knowledge, nor do you - then they are a bunch of hysterical, ignorant and stupid people.
But my reason for saying this may not be the same as that of others, many of whom post on this site - perhaps even you. I consider them just as hysterical, but fortunately they have no power to indulge their hatred. Unfortunately, in Afghanistan, circumstances have given power to this type just as in Germany it gave to Nazism.
The defeat of Nazi Germany has not got rid of the type - they can be found in all countries professing all kinds of faiths, even Christianity and Judaism - not only Islam. It is a human characteristic.
So spare us your self-righteous indignation.
Critic:-
But who are these hysterics? Name names. Who do you consider just as hysterical, and how do you think they would engage in Taliban-like repression and murder, given the chance to be absolute rulers?
Comment:-
I think that it is likely that you would be.
Probably all who are driven by hatred or are easily manipulated by ambitious power seekers because of their low intelligence, cannot see the causes for things, but merely react emotionally. There are several such on these sites.
Read newspapers and history. This kind of thing has happened and can happen throughout the globe.
Critic:-
Can anyone give a clear definition of what in art is "contradictory or harmful to healthy human functioning," such that an artist could know with reasonable certainty in advance what is likely to get him punished in a state ruled according to your views of Islamic law?
Give a clear set of guidelines, man! Then we can discuss them!
Comment:-
I have given the guidelines. You wish me to write a book of laws?
The answer is: No.
It is not in my program and I do not wish to create a rigid structure that might not work in practice. As long as the general principles are known, in practice there has to be experiment, trial and error, to establish that which works. It has taken centuries to get things to where they are in the West. Unfortunately, Muslims had stopped modifying and adapting their practices. Hopefully, they can begin again after they throw off the yoke they are under.
I do not wish to discuss things with those who have not understood and accepted the general principles. There is no point. You ought to know from your own scripture what is good or evil. Are you trying to tell me that you do not know the difference between say, a text book on the physiology of sex and pornography or between normal sexual relationships and those between humans and animals etc. But you are trying hard to obscure and confuse the issue. This has been happening for centuries.
Critic:-
Give some of your own criteria, and be specific! Saying that artists ought not to engage in "depravity" is not helpful at all; it is much like saying people shouldn't sin without specifying what types of things constitute sins. That is, it only works if the people you are addressing already know what "depravity" means to you and agree with you! If you seek to address only those who already know what you mean by everything, haven't you wasted a lot of time?
Comment:-
The answer is as above.
Have I not stated several times that the Islamic values apply to those who accept Islam and are educated in Islamic principles. They will then know what depravity means.
Whether or not I am wasting my time cannot really be assessed by you. You have no idea of my motives or the effects of the articles.
Critic:-
I said you would cop out because you deserve to be challenged, much as you hate to be and would prefer to engage in an endless series of uninterrupted lectures. I see you did answer this time, but your track record of ignoring or evading numerous other such questions suggested to me that you wouldn't.
Comment:-
The trouble is that you think you are challenging me. But you are completely off the point. The only way I might feel challenged is if you can show that what I am writing is incompatible with or in contradiction to the Quran or Islam. Even then, if you convince me I will change my mind and abolish the challenge.
My track record is that I write about what I know and not about what I do not. That is what I intend to stick to.
But you and your kind wish me to make pronouncements about things I do not know, but which will confirm your opinions based on your lack of knowledge or inability to understand.
Critic:-
I am glad to see you say that. Did you ever get around to saying similar things about the Abu Sayyaf gang et al.? But I do give you credit for responding directly.
Comment:-
Yes I thought you would be glad. It justifies you in your prejudices. It makes no other difference.
But you also wish me to say the same about others about whom I have no knowledge, because that would make you glad also.
It does not really matter to you whether things are true or not, or whether I or others or you yourself speak from knowledge or not, as long as they agree with you, does it? If they do not confirm your opinion then you are displeased and condemn them.
Critic:-
You keep writing in the abstract. It's no use to talk about supposed Islamic principles in the abstract without dealing with concrete implications of your remarks. Consider that the Constitution of the Soviet Union was a thing of beauty - no, you wouldn't care. Consider the paucity of toleration in countries ruled under hudud law. I suppose you'll claim that the reporting is so inaccurate that you don't believe it, just as the Stalinists in the West refused to believe their idol was really murdering tens of millions of people. Ah, but this is all irrelevant, right? Islam is such a beautiful, peaceful religion that the depredations of people in power who claim to be putting it into action should never be specifically condemned by Muslims, right? At best, they should be condemned grudgingly, while whining that asking for such a condemnation constitutes a "witch hunt." Right?
Comment:-
All this sounds like hypocrisy to me. You have not understood the general principles yet and wish to know the details, which can only be of interest to those who actually accept Islam and wish to apply it practically. And there are enough others concerned with these, though there are some details in my articles also.
We all know that human beings have limitations and that no system, however, idealic in theory, will work as long as unaltered human beings run it.
"Allah changes not the condition of the people unless they change what is in their hearts" Quran 13:11
Therefore, it is necessary to have and apply a discipline and state of affairs which will alter them. Such a discipline and conditions are provided by Islam if properly understood, which I am trying to ensure.
This is the basic teaching of the Quran.
It is this that I keep drumming in through my articles.
But you, and your like, read them and still do not comprehend. Instead you keep making silly irrelevant remarks full of red herrings.
But I am sure you can really work out the answers yourself if you wished. And if you do not wish you are unlikely to accept mine.
This discussion is, therefore, futile and I terminate it.
Believe what you like.
----------<O>----------